Do you feel satisfied with your accomplishments in life?
Are you where you want to be?
A surprising amount of people will say “no” to these questions — and you might be one of them.
People who haven’t made satisfactory progress in life often fail to reach their goals — because they’re stuck inside their comfort zones.
What are the good and bad things about being in the comfort zone? On this episode of roasting marshmallows, we will talk about how we sometimes find ourselves stuck in the comfort zone and what we do to step out of it to hopefully become a better ourselves.
Panche Gashteovski 0:06
Although you're far from the mic,
Rolf Suurd 0:08
oh, yeah, we are live. Welcome to another episode of scout cast. My name is Raul suit, and I'll be your host. So do you feel satisfied with your accomplishments in life? Where are you where you want to be? surprising amount of people will say no to these questions. And you mean, you might be one of them. People who have made satisfactory progress in life often failed to reach their goals, because they're stuck inside their comfort zones. And that's what we're going to be talking about today. You know, being stuck in a comfort zone stepping out, why is it good? Why is it hard? And to do that, I am joined here by my regulars nowadays. And he punch I know. So I know how you doing?
Arno Van Rossum 0:47
Pretty good, actually.
Rolf Suurd 0:48
Arno Van Rossum 0:48
I'm not really enjoying the weather, but fundamentals doing pretty good. Are you guys following me?
Rolf Suurd 0:53
Are you comfortable?
Arno Van Rossum 0:54
And the podcast nowadays? Yes. I think a few episodes, less, but it's okay. Now.
Rolf Suurd 1:00
All right. Well, good to have you back, man. budget. What's up, man? How's it going?
Panche Gashteovski 1:04
Good. I had a short work week. So that's kind of good. Always. So yeah, well, front Friday afternoon designated for a lesson in those in those in the same trend that Arnold mentioned, it's becoming more and more comfortable. So we need to find a way I think to make it more challenging.
Rolf Suurd 1:26
Well, I mean, we've we've been doing that right, by getting this stuff out on YouTube, I guess. So maybe the next step would be to do an actual live episode. This is pre recorded stuff. We can we can keep doing. We can keep doing that. And of course, the regular Henrique how are you doing? What's up.
Henrique Santana de Miranda 1:43
I'm doing okay. Definitely in a lot of uncomfortable spots right now. So
Rolf Suurd 1:48
yeah. Are you standing? Yeah, understanding today? Yeah. So that's, that's a comfortable
Henrique Santana de Miranda 1:53
or, for me, it is. I'm quite lazy with that.
Rolf Suurd 1:57
All right, cool. Okay, so, of course, you know, being comfortable is really nice. You know, everyone wants to be cosy, you know, snuggle up under a blanket, maybe watch a movie. But, you know, the obvious thing is, of course, work related comfort, where people spend a lot of time in the same company doing the same thing, you know, year in, year out. And I must admit, you know, that I am one of these people, I think I have, you know, I've been working for like 15 years now, and I've had to employers in these 15 years. So I definitely tend to, to stick around and, you know, the familiar environments. So, you know, punching How is that? How is that for you? Is that? Does that sound familiar?
Panche Gashteovski 2:41
I was thinking the same? When you mentioned it, it was just like, oh, how is it for me? For the biggest part of my professional life that actually worked? Probably for one company. Wow. But then again, within that company, I think I've changed four or five different roles or positions and responsibilities in a period of, let's say, 10 years,
Rolf Suurd 3:10
and also come into the field as a different does that feel as like a different job? Just having a different role?
Panche Gashteovski 3:16
Yeah, that's what I've been trying to think. Yes, and no. So then, on one hand, you're basically thrown, like a couple of times, I've found myself in position that I'm thrown into something that I've never done before and completely new. And so I had to really step out of part of the comfort zone. But what was comforting is sometimes I was sometimes at the pleasure of doing it with at least some people that I knew. So that was comforting into that discomfort role.
Arno Van Rossum 3:51
So but I can also imagine that the culture plays a game in this, because you're still in the same culture, if you're in the same organisation, but also
Panche Gashteovski 3:57
the culture changes changes a lot like the company that I started working. When was that 2000 and originally 2008. It's like, it's after 10 years was completely different company occupies as well. Because the company changed so many times they changed positions within the company, the company got bought out by another company, then that introduced the new dynamics. So it's a lot of things change. So I don't I don't know I don't know what is more comfortable. I think sometimes people think that staying in a certain company on a long time is probably actually might be actually more uncomfortable. So interesting.
Henrique Santana de Miranda 4:46
I agree with that.
Panche Gashteovski 4:47
So it's it's kind of you're the the frog in the cooking pan, like you don't notice how the water is heating up because it's, well, you're kind of, you're taking it bit by bit, bit by bit. Bit by bit,
Henrique Santana de Miranda 5:01
actually like, because that's like, I think that the topic for this podcast came from a recommendation for a listener and a friend. And I was actually speaking to him today, I don't think I'm allowed to mention his name. So I hope he will recognise himself in it. But it kind of related like he was telling me a story of how he confronted his boss in a way. And then basically, after this confrontation, his job became a bit more miserable. And he had he still there after, like, really long, and he enjoyed last his job, but in a way he is comfortable there. But he's also very uncomfortable with this new world change, right? Like, when you have now a boss that does not support you. And then it's like,
Rolf Suurd 5:44
but but but is that really being in the comfort zone? Or is that being afraid of change? Or is that the same thing?
Henrique Santana de Miranda 5:51
I think as a comfort zone, right? Like, I think your comfort zone is where you are used to, doesn't matter if it's good or bad. Right? You are used to that, then you are comfortable. I think our mind works that way I read somewhere.
Rolf Suurd 6:03
It's like with the with the dictators like being removed from power, right? People want them to stay because like, Well, we know, you know, it's gonna be so yeah, it sucks. But at least we know what he's about. Yeah. predictable. predictable. Yeah. Well, it
Panche Gashteovski 6:18
would make me think like, okay, is that really necessarily a bad thing? It might not be because like, the alternative might be actually far worse. Or far better?
Rolf Suurd 6:25
You don't know. Yeah,
Henrique Santana de Miranda 6:30
I think that's the main question, right? There's like, I think if you are in a comfort zone, the question is, like, are you growing? Are you still improving yourself?
Rolf Suurd 6:45
And that can be on multiple levels, right? Like professionally, it's, it might be easy to say like, Oh, I learned this thing today, or I learned that thing this year. But I guess like stepping out of the comfort zone does something more to you as a person, rather than like a skill set or something, right? Like, it really enables you to discover you, what you what you like, what you don't like, you know who you are as a person? At least I think it would.
Arno Van Rossum 7:10
But that would be the assumption that if you step out of your comfort zone, you would actually grow.
Henrique Santana de Miranda 7:16
And I think that's how it works. Yeah.
Rolf Suurd 7:19
Kind of like going to the gym, right? Like you have to live weights to get sore muscles, like really challenge yourself, otherwise, your muscles will just go away and might be the same as you know, for your personality. Would you say that that is not the case then? Or no? Is it not guaranteed stepping out of our comfort zone, we will have, you know, a positive impact in your life experience?
Arno Van Rossum 7:43
Well, if you for example, you are comfortable with the job you have right now, you move to another one, which is even worse. It's not necessarily a better thing now.
Henrique Santana de Miranda 7:55
Moving to something that is worse, not talking about like doing something that is challenging for you. Right?
Arno Van Rossum 8:02
Well, going through a new job could be stepping out your comfort zone. Yeah, the better or worse.
Rolf Suurd 8:12
Yeah, that's true.
Henrique Santana de Miranda 8:14
Like, I think the way the way how I look at it is like because I saw this documentary about this clever, right? Like, he's a free solo. And every time he basically climbs without a rope, and then he chooses a higher mountain, the most difficult mountain and is not proceeded is worse is just more challenging. So yes, he is growing every time he does that he gets better every single time he goes to a different challenge. But then we are put in comfort zone as well. I'm getting out of my comfort zone. Now I'm in a environment that is horrible. Is this better? Well, probably not. Because your environment is horrible. But at the same time, I think you're learning something that you did not learn before.
Rolf Suurd 8:55
But it doesn't have to be horrible, right? Like, when we did the photo shoot in the office, for example. Yeah, like, to me that is stepping out of the comfort zone. Because, you know, I have never done anything like that before, you know, dressing up a beard, you know, closing finding the right spots where to take this picture, you know, and But still, you know, it's, it's, it's a good thing we did it, you know, for, you know, the experience itself, but also, you know, we can use these, these pictures on line and like I said, net net positive impact in the end, but still it is stepping out. But not like to, sorry...
Arno Van Rossum 9:30
And it's a good practice for marriage. Right.
Rolf Suurd 9:33
Because you're gonna get your pictures taken and yeah, sure. Okay, right. But But I mean, the point that I'm trying to make like it doesn't always have to be horrible, right? Because it wasn't horrible getting my pictures taken. It was just something different than just something you need to set your your mind to where they like stepping out of our comfort zone doesn't always have to be, you know, you know, stepping in an ice bath or, you know, doing a Mud Run or doing something insane, right. It can also just be something that you Yeah, that's just unknown to
Henrique Santana de Miranda 10:00
Yeah, exactly. Oh, out of your comfort, right. And so if we reverse this, like, a bit more on the personal side, like, be like Rob, just give an example of his pictures, right. And I think you guys mentioned about about the podcast, like, and I remember when we started there was like very, very hard and now at least 10 natural. So do you think that this did not help you to be better at something? Or do you have an example yourself that you step out of your comfort zone and actually became worse your life?
Panche Gashteovski 10:36
Is that, is that a question for Arno or for?
Henrique Santana de Miranda 10:39
Whoever wants to answer?
Panche Gashteovski 10:40
Okay, so. Yhis is what I'm gonna say. So stepping out of out of your comfort zone. When you do that, with your own freewill, when you do it consciously, then it's a good can be a good thing. If you're thrown. And if you're not, you don't want to do it. If you're maybe forced to do that, then it can have a negative impact doesn't mean that every time that you do it out of your own free will, every time is going to have always the best outcome or the outcome that you always expect. Of course not. But there's the recipe for for success. It's like, I'm willingly putting myself in discomfort right now. And I'm going to explore this and I'm going to try to extract something out of value here.
Arno Van Rossum 11:27
But it can happen to you that
Panche Gashteovski 11:28
that's where that's when growth happens.
Unknown Speaker 11:31
No but, we're ever pushed into a discomfort, like an uncomfortable zone.
Panche Gashteovski 11:37
Let me think.
Henrique Santana de Miranda 11:39
Yes, I was.
Panche Gashteovski 11:41
Unknown Speaker 11:42
I was some experience.
Unknown Speaker 11:46
Panche Gashteovski 11:48
Bam, yes. Right now, it's one of maybe the best things, but at the time, it was very, very negative. So do you want it? Yeah, I was sure. So I was 14.
I had this tight group of friends. And that's the friend two friends, partial friends from school, but partially the friends you went out with you hang out and whatever. And, oh, at least I thought at the time, right perceived at the time that these people were my tight knit group. Until one evening, well, the government was like, Okay, fine. Should we not no longer want you to hang around with us?
Henrique Santana de Miranda 12:32
Then they told you that, yes, at least they told you.
Panche Gashteovski 12:37
Right. But then, at the time, I was really, really, you know, 14, and you're really trying to find yourself as a teenager in the social environment and your place, and your group meant everything to you. But all of a sudden, you're like, you're alone. That's really being thrown out, like really kicked out. And that was that kid that moment of chaos, I suppose. Like, for me, it's like, Whoa, okay, My world is collapsing. And it did take a while. But now if I like years later, when I when I look back at that, I think it was like one of maybe the best on our best more most valuable experiences I've gone through as it's made me probably think about myself. And like think for as one person is like that me as a unit as an as an individual, I can have an opinion, I don't need to always validate my opinions within a group to be accepted within a group, but I can have an individual stand stand alone. And I think that has probably been one of the most valuable, valuable discoveries of my teams. And if I hadn't gone through that negative experience, I don't know, if I would have maybe I would have come to that conclusion maybe years later on. But up until that, I felt I was sacrificing a lot of myself to fit into a certain group.
Rolf Suurd 14:09
But that's interesting, right? Because you just said that, like it might be not very good to get pushed out of the comfort zone. But then clearly these guys pushed you out of the you know, this the circle basically. But still, in the end, you gained a positive experience, maybe through a lot of hardships, you know, but still even though you got pushed out of the comfort zone still you got something out of it, which is interesting to me at least.
Henrique Santana de Miranda 14:35
So basically is all so far is positive. And the thing is like we are just considering negative experience to be something horrible, but it's just part of life. Right? So it's like, yeah, sure you got out of a comfort zone. You experienced some negativity. Yeah, come that one. But
Panche Gashteovski 14:54
I think what I what I want one of the things that I got the trigger me is something that was mentioned earlier. Well, one of you mentioned I think about both roles, hearing him maybe over toppling dictators. And I'm a bit like, well, I don't know, if you go and ask people in countries like Iraq or in Libya, if they haven't better now than they had AIDS 510 15 years ago, I'm not sure that they're exactly they did. Yeah.
Henrique Santana de Miranda 15:27
Yeah. But that's the thing, right? That's, that's like, we have the same. I just say, discussion sometimes in Brazil, that I seen the news, where people was like, supporting that dictators come back, you know, to power because that time they owe the country was much better. But I mean, this is just like, wishful thinking without knowing exactly what happened. But I think what I tried to say on that, quote, was more like Him for this book from this guy, Daniel Pink drive. And he basically, they made some experiments that they show that we people, we actually prefer to deal with people that are very annoying, but consistently, then people do have sometimes nice, it's sometimes, like, unpredictable. We just don't like the unpredictability of like, let's say, people. So in that scenario, I can imagine it's the same, right? Like, we prefer something that is extremely bad for us, but we know what to expect. So I think that's more like the connection with the dictators.
Panche Gashteovski 16:25
But then we go into the somebody mentioned, I think, was Arno earlier. Is that a fear of unknown or fear of change? Yeah, uncertainty. Uncertainty is
Arno Van Rossum 16:35
the thinking that blocks your friends to actually move away from his job. Because he knows what he has right now. Quote, right, based on your quote, you said, like Daniel Pink shirts. And now I lost myself as well.
Henrique Santana de Miranda 16:54
Panche Gashteovski 16:56
was, you know, yeah,
Henrique Santana de Miranda 16:58
I think he stays there. Because it's comfortable for him, because he knows how to deal with it. Yeah, he knows what to expect. So for him, he is extremely confident. And that's why he is in his comfort zone. Right? It's not he's not in the comfort zone, because it's per se. Good for his future good for his well, being good for his life. Happiness is just good, because it's comfortable. Because he knows what to expect. He knows the social structure, he knows the social dynamics, and then that's comfortable. But then at the same time, he is not perceived, growing in his that's my judgement. So sorry, if I'm
Arno Van Rossum 17:32
judging you on that, but he can defend himself. Next time, right?
Rolf Suurd 17:36
Well, but I can I can, I can defend him, right. Like he might not be growing professionally. But like, you don't know what he's doing in his spare time. Right? Like, he might be doing this. You know, maybe he's a climber as well. Right. And then challenging him in different ways.
Henrique Santana de Miranda 17:50
It can be that can be that work is not his? It's not his had to say his main focus, right? But it's like, sometimes he talks about it. And then we're like, why don't you move jobs? And then he always goes like, chill. Yeah, I'm quite comfortable right now. You know, there is like, there you see that he find it interesting, the discussions and everything, but for some reason, he doesn't move. I actually asked today why he doesn't move and he doesn't answer.
Rolf Suurd 18:14
But it might also be like, because it's an IMG I also spoke to a lot of people there and they basically said like, Well, you know, it's a golden cage here like it pays really well and that work is not that bad. So yeah, I'm okay with it. And that's exactly
Panche Gashteovski 18:29
the quote that this friend that he is talking about is used the golden prison bars and it's in the end it comes down down to priority and what you value is like, what do you value and we'll come up Okay, so
Rolf Suurd 18:45
then for everybody I mean, I mean, he's not here right? So I'll just ask you guys like what what are you guys willing to sacrifice then? It service of like, step stepping out of the comfort zone and you know, improving yourself reaching certain goals in life. I know and he sacrificed everything right. Because you know, you had a startup you lost all your savings. I mean, that's pretty much
Henrique Santana de Miranda 19:07
I got married I sacrificed everything again. Yeah. Yeah,
Rolf Suurd 19:13
so I know I know that you're willing to put everything on the line basically. So that's that's cool. Country Yes. But what about your budget as well move to a different country as well I suppose so argument Well, let's let's move to you first. Like what are you willing to sacrifice man? Damn.
Arno Van Rossum 19:32
This points console.
Rolf Suurd 19:36
So you actually you're actually comfortable with being in the comfort zone? Because it's okay.
Henrique Santana de Miranda 19:43
I don't I don't mean
Arno Van Rossum 19:44
he is it doesn't help me in the long run. And that's what I know. That's why I keep pushing on it.
Henrique Santana de Miranda 19:50
Exactly. Because you are not comfortable with being in the comfort zone.
Arno Van Rossum 19:54
Well, I like it a lot, right? Because very comfortable both for myself and my personal growth, your long term vision It doesn't make sense. For me anyways, right? Cuz as a person I want to move forward because if I stand still I, I've learned from passive that doesn't really work well.
Rolf Suurd 20:12
Yeah, standing still is like backwards progression. Right? So
Panche Gashteovski 20:14
yeah, so roll, I have two things to question while two questions, and I'll maybe one is the comments. And Yep. So what is the one is you said something like, what are you willing to sacrifice?
Rolf Suurd 20:27
Exactly? Because we're talking about this golden cage thing. Right?
Panche Gashteovski 20:30
Right? Well, whether you do something or you don't do something, or you do nothing, you're still sacrificing. And when you're actively sacrificing the place you are, you're having a say in it, and the act of sacrifice. It's a very, it's discomfort for traditional, but it's a trade of the present for a better future. That's what you're wanting to trade. I want to trade my comfort and security in the present for a better outcome in the future. And that is it's this is all this humanity.
Rolf Suurd 21:00
Yeah, but this better outcome is not guaranteed, right? And then never always, it's always a gamble.
Panche Gashteovski 21:04
Never right. But then I think our all society and our all of our relationships work in that way. That's why we do anything that we do we do it because like, otherwise, you would just like, say sitting or lying and just trying to eat an apple, you know that? If you don't go to work? Yeah. Well, you won't have you won't have heating in your house next month, for instance, if you cannot pay right, so that is your trading your momentary comfort for for a future while success. And we can go a lot of other things I find interesting you asked, Well, he kind of mentioned v us are no. What are you? What are you willing to sacrifice for yourself for? Well, are you sacrificing the future for the present? Are you sacrificing? Are you willing to sacrifice the present for a better future?
Rolf Suurd 21:54
So I'm pretty split on this, right? Because I've been dealing with a lot of funerals lately. So the future is not guaranteed, right? You know, anyone could be gone tomorrow. But still, you have to plan for the future. So it's, it's, it's difficult for me to say like, Oh, you know, I'm willing to sacrifice anything. Because in 30 years, it'll make me rich, right? Because, yeah, who knows, I won't be here in 30 years. So I think what I am willing to sacrifice is definitely, you know, stability, I guess, is one that I am willing to give up. So, let's say stability in terms of like work. So I am willing, for example, to quit my job and do something totally different, because I want to do it. But there's also backed up by the safety net of being in the IT industry, right? Like, I mean, look at all these guys failing their startups or, you know, trying something that doesn't work. I mean, there's always a backup plan, you could always work at some other company and pay the bills and keep your house. So I am definitely willing to sacrifice work, for sure. Yep. I don't think I'm willing to sacrifice like, I wouldn't put up my house, for example, like, let's say, I'm going to start a startup. And then these guys is going to willing to do an investment in me and says like, Oh, I'm going to need your house as like, collateral, I'll probably probably won't be willing to do those kinds of things. So yeah, income stability, I'm willing to give up. But housing stability, I won't I probably won't be willing to give up. I don't know if that that answers your question. It's a long answer, man.
Panche Gashteovski 23:40
Oh, it's a simple question. So I don't know why you're giving a really long answer to it.
Rolf Suurd 23:46
Oh, well, I mean, because I don't know if I would say, like, are willing to give up everything. I would be lying right now. Because I'm
Henrique Santana de Miranda 23:52
no, no, of course. But like, I think I think that's interesting, right? Because it's like, and I think it changed in the past in like, the time of your life, because as you said, like, I sacrificed everything when I had my startup, but at the same time, I didn't have much.
Panche Gashteovski 24:04
So it was like, nothing like
Henrique Santana de Miranda 24:07
nothing much. But yeah, once you actually have a house, a family and a lot of things and like would you sacrifice that? Probably not. But I can imagine that you can get out of your comfort zone in different steps in different phases. But doesn't have to be that extreme. But I definitely get this dilemma of living in the present but planning for the future, and is pretty tricky.
Panche Gashteovski 24:33
Yeah, I think that's really right. Finding the right balance. Like, oh, like roll said, it's not guarantee that it's gonna happen so well. Am I going to just wait it up? Like when I grew up, for instance, we had already happened. Oh, well, I was young. I wanted to say actually when I was growing up
We had what my mom had this day, okay? Well, you have these new clothes or your new shoes, and we keep them like for special occasions, and you wear them only then? Well, then that's awesome. It's an idea. Good idea. Great maybe concept is to some extent, but then like, you wear those thing twice, and then you just grow out of them. So what was the value on one? Why not wear them more regularly? So you utilise those things more often? And the same thing sounds like now in life, right? Who knows if you'll be in good health to try new things, and if you're just gonna postpone enjoying life as well. So
Rolf Suurd 25:41
yeah, but I do think it's important to do these things, though, from time to time, maybe not all the time. But I mean, I don't think anyone has ever regretted trying something, right. Like, unless it gets someone killed or something, I suppose. But like, most of the time, people say like, Well, you know, I tried this thing didn't work out. But I'm glad I did it. Right. That's, that's, that's usually how it goes.
Henrique Santana de Miranda 25:59
I think it goes like this for people who are in a environment that also allows that because I do know, people who has a little bit of like, I'd say not phobia phobia to like, like, they are really afraid of trying because of the consequences of the peers around them. I can I can partially agree with what you're saying.
Rolf Suurd 26:04
But what would what, what would the consequences be? Then would that would, you know, make people not step out of the comfort zone then? Like, what's like, I
Henrique Santana de Miranda 26:32
just think it's like, being judged. You know, like, I think we see there's quite a lot in companies, right? Like, you know, what the customers that we go, you know, people are, like afraid of writing, even like a simple unit test, and then like, is getting out of the comfort zone? Because they don't know, and they feel that they need permission, and they don't know what if he's going to be retaliation. Or like, I think another common thing I see is like, okay, we always ask people to speak up, right? Like, hey, you are in a meeting, writing a letter, just say, what is bothering you. And they are afraid of saying what is bothering them because of their manager who might be there, or the person who, hey, let's just say they're gonna basically give, like, some pushback, and then well, they get out of their comfort zones, and automatically, they get very uneasy. So I think those things that makes it harder for people to, to get out. And I mean, I'm definitely guilty of it. In a more like, non romantic setting, I have the same issue, how to get out of my comfort zone, to basically say the things I want to say, afraid of the response, even though is can be negative, but at the same time, it's like, yeah,
Rolf Suurd 27:34
yeah. So how would you move people to move to the comfort zone, because for example, like when I spoke to some of the the customers or to colleagues at a customer about the photoshoot that I mentioned, that there was this guy that said, like, Oh, you know, you know, you guys stepping out of your comfort zone all the time, like, because he's been hearing a few things that we're doing, right, this podcast, and, and, you know, all this stuff. And he was genuinely impressed with, you know, that we were, you know, looking for, you know, ways to step step out of the comfort zone in order to improve ourselves and improve the business. So, you know, he kind of got, I don't know, inspired or just impressed or whatever. But like, how would you motivate people to do these things?
Henrique Santana de Miranda 28:16
I think in my opinion, and for the things that I read is definitely the easiest way is if they have some sort of psychological safety, you know, if they not want to be, like, judged or push back or like be like, bullied just for the sake of trying, I think once those things are there, and I think that's what happens to us, like, we are constantly trying and I think you're probably going to be bullied if you're actually not trying. So it's like kind of the opposite. I think that's the step one, if there is not there, I think people don't feel comfortable enough to to get out. Yeah. Then you need an external factor to push you out. Like
Panche Gashteovski 28:58
everybody says, everybody is afraid of, well, everybody, everybody it's an international thing to be afraid of failing, whatever it is that you're doing. But if you maybe haven't voting or promoting failure, so hey, it's okay. It's okay to do this and we will learn and that's what I really liked also about forescout is basically we're just gonna run gazillion experiments. And if this one is first iteration fails, the second fail Well, the fifth is gonna succeed and well, that's really encourage you to do more. So I think for people who want to out they need to have an environment or a group or people that tell them Oh, it's okay. That's something that took me personally a long time to to understand and I don't know if that's like cultural thing from your family thing, but I was really always for biggest part of my life. I was being really afraid of failing and or being judged for it.
Rolf Suurd 30:00
Isn't that also because you're a guy? Because sometimes I feel that for men,
Henrique Santana de Miranda 30:06
You are a guy, man. You don't feel anything
Rolf Suurd 30:08
now, but like, I mean, I mean that, like, society teaches us like, you know, you're, you're the man, you know, you have to be successful, you know, you cannot fail, you have to be the superhero.
Panche Gashteovski 30:20
I don't think I ever associated that with me being a guy. Okay. I think it was more really a personal thing, but I don't know, maybe.
Arno Van Rossum 30:32
Does your family have the same problem?
Panche Gashteovski 30:35
Yeah. Yeah. When he was like, really having high expectations, then I do remember also, at some points. I was already like an adult and asking my parents, like, do I? How do they perceive me? Do they see me as a failure? Or not? Really? And then yeah, cuz I've been like, it's been this burden. And I know, well, it's definitely has come somewhere. My family has a role in that for sure. But on the other hand, it's like really propelled me to try to do better always.
Henrique Santana de Miranda 31:10
I think it's more related to school.
Panche Gashteovski 31:14
Could have been maybe could be,
Arno Van Rossum 31:16
I also think it's a bit
Panche Gashteovski 31:17
like, it's all it's related to everything I would say in the end. It's not just one thing, though. Oh, it's this.
Henrique Santana de Miranda 31:22
Now of course, it's like multiple but like, I mean, at school Is this right? Like you study you make a grade, either you fail you succeed is like a kind of a binary thing. Yeah. And I think it's probably Yeah, we all been there, I think doesn't matter which country wise, the same kind of system. So it's, they don't, per se teach us how to just embrace the trial. And they consider everything as a successful failure.
Panche Gashteovski 31:45
Yeah, It's correct.
Henrique Santana de Miranda 31:45
think it's a bit more nuanced than that.
Arno Van Rossum 31:48
But what your parents say to you then?
Panche Gashteovski 31:52
While they were Are you Are you crazy? It's like, Why? Why are you? Why do you? Where does this come from? Like,
Arno Van Rossum 31:57
did this help? No, I
Panche Gashteovski 31:58
was a very emotional, no, no, they was really, they have a really great relationship by I had for many for a long time, I've had this feeling of being judged.
And on one hand, it's it can be a negative thing can be a burden if you feel it constantly. But if you don't feel it at all, it's also like, any, then none of your actions matter.
Henrique Santana de Miranda 32:27
Is that so?
Panche Gashteovski 32:29
if nobody's gonna, if you're not going to be judged for anything, then
Henrique Santana de Miranda 32:33
you better be judges but doesn't impact you. Right? I mean, that's the that's the whole power of it. Like,
Rolf Suurd 32:39
But why why does the judgement of other people? Like why should that matter? Okay, I get it. Oh, judgement of your parents holds a certain value. But I could give a give a crap what, like the neighbour or like the next man on the street?
Panche Gashteovski 32:53
Of course you to. No, you do give a crap all the time?
Rolf Suurd 32:56
I don't think I necessarily,
Panche Gashteovski 32:58
Yeah, you do. We all do. Of course. Now, I don't want you to be part of a society or part of a group. And
Arno Van Rossum 33:05
I don't think it's true either. To be honest,
Panche Gashteovski 33:07
I know that you guys don't think that. That's all of your behaviour. Everything is really pretty supposition on what other people think of you. That's why you act in the way you act. That's why your culture in the way you your culture. That's why you say good morning to people when you see them, even though you don't know them.
Henrique Santana de Miranda 33:27
Yeah, but that has nothing to do with judgement is just has to be doing. Like, that's how you interact to people. Right? So I think judgement is more like, okay, we are recording this podcast. So now people listen to you. And they start saying This podcast is the worst thing I've ever heard. Like, wow, okay. And then you can be like, Oh, I'm curious to understand, what what is this coming from? Right? And then you ask a few questions, or whatever. Or you can be very judged, and you go into defence, and then it's like, try to debate with that person. Because this is good. This is bad. So I think the difference here is not like, I think, of course, I feel judged, a lot of people feel judged. But I think the whole power is like these judgments should not affect you. Because this judgement is based their view on your work your life, your thing, and that should not influence you. But I know it does. But the point is, I think that's free. If you I don't think you want to be able to like, sorry, I think you want to be able to experience judgement without impacting your life is just an opinion, in my opinion,
Panche Gashteovski 34:30
The last two words.
Rolf Suurd 34:32
I do I do think that, you know, being accepted. And that's probably what punchy really means is, I mean, I do think that that is important to most people, right? That you feel accepted in the community and like, you know, being valued as a person. But I was more like, comparing it to like, you know, I don't really care about what someone might feel about like my clothing or about like my job or like the decisions that I've been making in my life. Like those are mine, right and if you know anyone should be able to judge it. It's myself, right. So, so maybe that's a bit of a difference.
Panche Gashteovski 35:05
But the community judge you if you if you walk naked outside of the door, it's your decision. And you can say, oh, for whatever I care, it's my decision for myself, you will be judged, I will care about that. Right. So okay, you'll be judged, and you will, you will care about that.
Rolf Suurd 35:24
Yeah, okay. But I mean, then you could also say, like, Hey, you know, it's pretty bad to kill someone, because then you'll get judged to do so. I don't know if that's not the best the best comparison right there.
Henrique Santana de Miranda 35:34
Again, he still The point is, you're gonna be judged. The question is, are you going to let it impact you? Right? So a bunch of say, like, Yeah, I was always afraid of judgement. So he was acting based on fear of something that correct, he was assuming that it's going to happen, right? So there is a difference when we are like, why I don't like judgement. I don't behave well. And some people judgement, but then I think it's a total different things, right. There's like one is like, prevent you from acting, and the other one you already did. And then it's just like, Wow, now I need to deal with the consequences of something else.
Panche Gashteovski 36:03
Well, it also depends, and I think here is where a lot of difference is, let's say where you're a group of 100 people, and one or two people are judging you for whatever. And 90 people are okay. You should just ignore. Yeah. But if 80 people say something to you that it's like, hey, what you did is wrong, then maybe you should listen.
Rolf Suurd 36:28
Yeah. Yeah, I agree. So we were talking about, you know, stepping out of the comfort zone, and how it's going to make you a better person. So to say, or, like, at least, like, give you experiences that shape you for hopefully, the better. But is it also possible to become a better person without stepping outside of the comfort zone?
Henrique Santana de Miranda 36:54
For a person, we mean, like, we grow in some growing Yeah, whatever field you are, like.
Rolf Suurd 37:00
I don't know, like, for example, reading a book, right? I mean, for some people that might already be stepping out of the comfort zone, but like, Can you read like, 100 books, and then become a better person without really having to do anything uncomfortable? No, why not? Well,
Henrique Santana de Miranda 37:16
Man is like, I would be a professional surfer bodybuilder, just watching YouTube's right, like, doesn't work for me.
And I think is it gonna be a little bit now? Obviously, a sensitive topic, but it's like, a judgement. Or maybe judgmental too. So forgive me in advance, as well. Like, I always think about religious right, like, my whole family's Catholic, they all went to church, and they all did all those things. And it ended up not being religious. But yeah, like, just going to the church doesn't make your saints Right. I mean, you need to put the work you need to get out of the whole thing. And it's like, and the principles that let's say, the religion teaches you, yeah, I think the core of those who need to get out of your comfort zone otherwise. Yeah, I don't think you'll grow, I don't think you'll become a better person at all. So just by listening to a priest, or let's say, people listening to us, yeah, it doesn't make you grow at all.
Rolf Suurd 38:16
You have to put it into practice, you have to try, he has to probably fail a few times.
Panche Gashteovski 38:20
So reading books can be getting out of constantly can grow, but depends like what you do with what you read.
Henrique Santana de Miranda 38:28
And I think it will change your it will definitely influence your thinking. But yet you still need to put that in practice, right? Yeah.
Panche Gashteovski 38:36
So the theory without practice is just
Henrique Santana de Miranda 38:40
Rolf Suurd 38:42
So so let's, let's, let's have a round. Let's start with Arno. Because that's what we build. That's what we do today, starting with, what's the most what's the most uncomfortable thing you've ever done?
Arno Van Rossum 38:54
Well, I was just contemplating a little bit like, Okay, is there was there a time that I was really uncomfortable, and it actually had a negative benefit? And I might have thought, but I'm not sure. But again, that goes back to being forced out of my comfort zone.
Henrique Santana de Miranda 39:12
to be the judge.
Arno Van Rossum 39:14
So, I told the story before I think my daughter used to be quite sick, epileptic seizures, said that before. And then we had to go to the hospital. She had to get an MRI brain scan. Not sure if it's an MRI, I think so. Yeah, but yeah, but she was one years old, I think or one and a half. So had to go inside with with her, and I had to put her on the bench and take her out with sleeping gas or something like that. with six doctors looking right. I experienced this quite uncomfortable, to be honest. Yeah, sure what I got out of it. Besides to traumatise yourself,
Panche Gashteovski 40:03
that's, that sounds like panic. And I'll just like this conference sounds like really, really panic mode. Oh, they
Arno Van Rossum 40:09
They ask you, right? It's the best if the parent actually does this for kids.
Panche Gashteovski 40:15
Yeah. But you know, that's the thing, the value you get out of it is that your kid feels at least a bit more comfortable with you being there.
Rolf Suurd 40:25
For her, but doesn't it feel? Doesn't it feel it you say empowering to or not empowering us around wherever it doesn't feel to live? Yeah, I don't know. That's not what I'm going to wear. Like, because like the doctor said, like, it's better if the father does it, or the mother or the parent, whatever. But like that you can do this for your child, because otherwise like a doctor by doing it like an unknown person. And like, Who knows? What does that to the psyche of a child. Right. So now you've been like, it's a shitty situation to be in. But you know, you've you've stepped up to the plate in order to do what you had to do.
Arno Van Rossum 41:00
I get the arguments. Yeah, you're pushed out of the comfort zone. Yeah. I wasn't sure if there's a benefit. I don't know.
Henrique Santana de Miranda 41:08
I think I think that is right. Like if you actually, let's see if we are in the same room right now. And maybe it's a good story. You need to put me to sleep. I would prefer you over. I don't know if it helps, but I think it definitely would be.
Arno Van Rossum 41:23
I still do it every weekend, you know.
Rolf Suurd 41:28
But now it's just a quiet evening, I guess. All right. So punchy, do well, you already spoke about like your 14 year old self, right?
Panche Gashteovski 41:38
I don't I don't know.
Rolf Suurd 41:39
I said the most uncomfortable thing ever.
Panche Gashteovski 41:41
Probably not, but maybe things that I found myself calm, comfortable, would not be comfortable for a lot of people. And then vice versa. One of the more uncomfortable things is my wife getting arrested at a border and being deported from Macedonia, and having to deal with that. So Well, that's a separate story, we can do that. And another podcast.
Henrique Santana de Miranda 42:10
problem yes, she was very uncomfortable.
Arno Van Rossum 42:12
I think we should invite to the podcast and let's talk about this.
Panche Gashteovski 42:16
It's a cool story. But I, I do feel that our whole society or at least Western society values conference too much and that we become complacent because of that. I try to get myself out of comfort on a daily basis as much as possible, like actually doing an embracing things that I don't like and I hate just because well, it's Screw it, I'm gonna do it. And I see this. Sorry,
Arno Van Rossum 42:47
like the dishes
Panche Gashteovski 42:49
now, and I feel myself more drawn and inspired by actually people who do stuff like this.
Rolf Suurd 42:57
So like, like Wim Hof or something that is man like,
Panche Gashteovski 43:00
Jim Hoff. I've been taking cold showers for the last What is it six months, more than six months now?
Rolf Suurd 43:06
Yeah, nice. Like,
Panche Gashteovski 43:08
it's my daily. I don't think showers daily. Well, two to three times a week, but it's like I always do completely cold shower, finishing with like a cold shower. And that's one of the things that kind of reminder, hey, these, we're all used to these luxury. And it's like, let's get out of there or I, I get up at five o'clock in the morning regularly and just go for a run in the morning just because of it's like, Hey, get up. I don't know, I have this fascination
Arno Van Rossum 43:39
Panche Gashteovski 43:42
With concentration camps. I don't know why. And then it's like, yeah, yeah, that's a fear, right? So I'm drawn. I'm motivated by fear to do these things. It's like.
Arno Van Rossum 43:54
So you're training to get there, or what?
Rolf Suurd 43:58
might be a new course that we're going to set up my concentration camp training.
Panche Gashteovski 44:03
You're taking it to lightly? I find it quite heavy. These were ordinary people that were thrown into an unordinary situation without against their will. And who would I be if I had been thrown in a situation like that? That's That's the question. I'm trying to answer myself. How would I act?
Henrique Santana de Miranda 44:24
Why do you want to know that? or Why? Are you curious about it?
Rolf Suurd 44:33
You want to test your survival instincts, maybe right? See if you're worthy, or not worthy, but like capable of stepping up to the plate.
Panche Gashteovski 44:41
When when we hear stories about that periods about Second World War, Nazis and survivals. We tend to identify ourselves with the heroes. We tend to identify ourselves with the people who did the right thing who did the moral thing and saved but I think we're Far more predominantly people aren't actually going to be on the Nazi side because it's that's the stepping up to the hero that's like really ordinary to do. And that's a fear that I have. And I'm like trying to answer this for myself. Who am I? How would I act? So I don't know. I don't have any of these challenges help me find that out. But it's that's my discomfort, I suppose.
Rolf Suurd 45:36
What about you and equals the most uncomfortable thing you've ever done?
Unknown Speaker 45:39
Oh, man, I don't think I have a cop one. But I have a lot. And in a way is interesting, right? Because like, I live in Holland, with you guys. And it's extremely comfortable country. I actually tell people like, do not move here until you are like 50. Because you just get super freaking lazy. Your life is just like, yeah, I live like, like, I'm 50 years old. Right? Like, you know, and I compared to my friends in Brazil or their was living in other countries, you just see the dynamic is a total different things like, so I think comfort brings you to a place that is really not the place we should be as, as people. So I can I can agree with a lot of finger punches, saying I just don't think I would go the same flow of taking cold showers. And like, I think I do this in a different way, I guess. But like, I became very uncomfortable, because when I moved here, I did not speak English. I did not speak Dutch. So it was really uncomfortable. Right. And I do today I don't speak Dutch, and is always this uncomfortable. situation. I need to force people to speak English. Yeah. And but it's funny enough, somehow is not uncomfortable enough to force me to speak Dutch. So I don't know. And yeah, I got divorce. I had a kid that I didn't say was dreaming about to have it. And then like all those things were really uncomfortable. But I don't think they kind of I can hardly say make them in a ranking. And yeah, I don't think I have like, the most uncomfortable thing I've ever done. Okay, but it's definitely related. Now. Personal life. I think, for example, like, yeah, I also joined like a psychologist a couple of years ago, and I'm still doing it. And it was really uncomfortable to join because of prejudices and a lot of things that while we learn through the life, right, and I think this was one of the best things that I have definitely benefit from it of like stepping out of my comfort zone and actually, while going through it, and then learning through this process. Yeah, a lot of things related to the way how I am also getting to know myself then I realised that for me, in order to have the life that I want, I need to get out of my comfort zone. And has been like this every day is like our internal battle with my mind that other people don't see but with me is happening. But yeah, a lot a lot
Henrique Santana de Miranda 48:13
How about you?
Rolf Suurd 48:16
Well, also a lot and but I guess like I don't necessarily have such a dramatic story is like or no or punchy or something or not even as dramatic as yours. But like one of the, like, super uncomfortable thing that I did was I lived with my mother until I was 27 or 28. Right? Like, you know, super long never even been like as a student like on a on an apartment or whatever. Like I never did any of these things. So when I was like 27 I bought a house and yeah, I went to the house and I wanted to remodel it so like I tore down like all that will not throw down the walls but like removed all the wallpaper and like destroyed the floor and like totally made a mess of the house and then I you know clearly remember sitting down looking at the mess and it's like, what the fuck am I done, man? Like I I'm in depth to like over over my ears like a paid shit tonne of money for this house. Like it was a shit tonne of money for me at the at the time, right? Like I made a complete mess. I have no idea where to start. Like, you know, I have never lived on myself like I probably I could be from bacon egg at the time. It's like, Man, what am I going to do? But I'm still here still in the house didn't didn't crash on me. So
Henrique Santana de Miranda 49:31
Did it make you a better person?
Rolf Suurd 49:33
Yeah, I think so. In the end. Yeah, definitely taught me something about planning, and taught me something about Yeah, how to see through the ugliness, so to say, to really have a vision of working towards something. So that was, yeah, it's a clear memory, at least for me. I'm not sure if it was like the most uncomfortable thing I've ever done. But yeah, it's something What came to my mind at least when, when asking a question so?
Henrique Santana de Miranda 50:03
Well, I think everything you guys described, I hope is not the most uncomfortable thing you have ever done. Because that means then you're going to stop growing, and I hope you're gonna be like even more complicated things for you. That's my wish.
Panche Gashteovski 50:17
What I, what I've seen is then it's like, every time when you willingly Take, take a discomfort or a challenge, or you're willingly choose to sacrifice something, the summary net result of all the sacrifices that I think I've done is, so far it's positive. So I guess the long game is keep on doing voluntarily sacrifices, because if you don't do it voluntarily, as somebody chooses for you, yeah, you better
Henrique Santana de Miranda 50:55
and at work, do you guys have like an example of what you did get out of your comfort zone that brought you in problems.
Panche Gashteovski 51:05
Problems I have, it brought me in the goods that brought me better was afraid of, but then actually resulted actually a better outcome.
Unknown Speaker 51:21
Or, like. I saw this joke wasn't like, on this stupid website, like nine gag, and the guy was saying, like, have you ever had that day that you try to help somebody and then you're just became shit. Because if you're just there on your comfort zone, everything is nice. So I was thinking about that, like, have I ever tried to, you know, step up or say something, and then just made my life a nightmare?
Rolf Suurd 51:48
I've had that happen. But that is not. That's not work related, but more like, personal life related. where like, I'm a guy, like, it's hard for me to say no, when someone asks for help, I usually go ahead and do it. And then sometimes that's good, that gets you into situations that you don't really want to be in, right, like, so I have this friend, you know, and he always has this ideas for like, companies and stuff. And then he knows that I'm in it. So he always asked me like, Hey, can you do the website for me? And at one time, I said, Yeah, sure, man, like, How hard can it be, you know, WordPress template, and, you know, I'll fix it for you. But then all of a sudden, you're a webmaster for a company, right? And like, I've been doing this shit for free as well. And like, every time there was a problem, you know, he'd be on the phone and shit. And I even I even helped like, ladies in their house with their computers, like, you know, fixing up making them fast again, because they had like all kinds of spyware and stuff on it. And then like, you know, three or four months later, you get a call and say, like, hey, my computer broke down, and it's your fault, because you installed something on it, like, you know, three or four months ago, then you have to come down there and fix it. And then of course, it wasn't my fault. It was their own stupid mistake. But it's still like, these are things that that happened to me before. But the positive thing about it is, is that I've learned to say no, yeah.
Henrique Santana de Miranda 53:05
So basically, you get out of your comfort zone, and you're able to say no, when the now Your life is better. So again, it's like, every time you get out, it's very hard to do it. But once you do it, your life is better.
Rolf Suurd 53:15
Yep, yeah, for sure. Now, I could just say like, Hey, man, it's not my problem, you can do it yourself. So, and we've been talking about, you know, stepping out of the comfort zone, but do you guys feel that there's also a time and a place for being in the comfort zone, and when it's okay, to be there for a prolonged period, like, let's say Friday afternoon, when you're in under a huge amounts of stress, or, you know, when, I don't know when life is giving you oranges, you know, gotta make some lemonade, you know,
Panche Gashteovski 53:51
or any prolonged exposure to discomfort and to stress can be really long lasting, negative, all psychological consequences. So that's not the idea is not that you're constantly constantly in discomfort, because then there's whole psychological systems that get triggered, and then your body's constantly stressed needs, or maybe a perceived perceived stress. So it's definitely negative. So you need to find that line to walk partially one foot in comfort the other foot in discomfort that's like where you learn the most. And you feel comfortable. Even if things go south with learning that you can always fall back on something that you that is familiar.
Henrique Santana de Miranda 54:38
So your answer is yes, that is a place to just also be a time that you just like, Okay, I'm not going to take risk. I'm not going to go out. It's okay to be for a while in this comfortable state.
Rolf Suurd 54:53
Yeah, would you agree?
Henrique Santana de Miranda 54:57
Man is tricky. Definitely. For sure. I think like I'm gonna share his experience in one of the podcasts, right with like, his family. And I think in that condition, I could understand that you are. But as I think like the way I look at it, you are already out of your comfort zone, right? It's not like, so if like, say, a family member died, or you lost your job, or you cannot pay your mortgage, like you automatically are flown out by the comfort zone. So I don't think there is a place to be in the comfort zone like so you know, everything is perfect. And then you are just basically going to work coming back home watching Netflix the whole night and doing that for a month. Now, I don't think there is a place for that. But I'm just saying that, yeah, when something happens in your life that push you outside, I consider that also not being in your comfort zone. Yeah, so I actually don't believe that is a place to be in the comfort zone.
Rolf Suurd 55:49
Okay. And I know what about you?
Arno Van Rossum 55:55
In the end, I think I've did it, I did it for two years, be in my comfort zone and do absolutely nothing. But that's basically what the end result was. And this is my experience right now. And that did bring me to the point that I never want to do that again. And that made me move outside of the comfort zone continuously. So maybe for some people, you have to experience it, to be honest. Like really just feel that you're slowing down, you have nothing and then take that experience. Never again. You know what it is? You did it. And that was a bad idea. So I think there's a place for it.
Rolf Suurd 56:40
Henrique Santana de Miranda 56:43
And you Rolf?
Rolf Suurd 56:46
Yeah, I do think that there's that there can be good reasons to be in the comfort zone. You know, when you're going through hard times, in terms of like mentally, or, you know, under a lot of stress from work, like you need to sometimes focus on on one problem. And might like maybe having the problem is already being outside of the comfort zone. But yeah, I don't know, maybe there are multiple comfort zones, right? Let's say, Oh, I have a lot of stress at my work. So I'm going to choose to, you know, keep I don't know, my house situation as comfortably as possible. So I do think that there's a, there is a place for being in the comfort zone. But I do believe that that we have Yeah, that there has to be a perfectly valid reason for it. And that might might usually be a negative thing, which automatically push push you outside of the comfort zone. So it's hard for me to say like, yeah, it's okay to be to be catatonic and just not do anything for a while because I definitely agree with that. Yeah, that there's not really any reason for any human being to do that.
Henrique Santana de Miranda 57:55
I do have another question then. Yeah. Last one, at least from my side. How do you guys feel them? Or how do you see if your colleagues or your peers or your partner or your family members abroad? are in this course not in comfort zone? Does it bother you?
Arno Van Rossum 58:11
Panche Gashteovski 58:12
In constant discomfort or comfort?
Unknown Speaker 58:14
No in comfort, only in that never wants to get out of the comfort zone.
Panche Gashteovski 58:22
I lose respect.
Arno Van Rossum 58:28
Rolf Suurd 58:29
Panche Gashteovski 58:30
I don't know. That was the first thing that popped in my mind. That's what it feels to me. That's what start? Yeah. not respecting people like that.
Rolf Suurd 58:45
I don't know. I wouldn't go as far as to say like losing respect, but it's definitely makes the person less interesting at least and then I don't know, like it makes you maybe even like move or move away from these these types of peoples. And then yeah, when it's something someone close to you, then I definitely ask them from time to time, like, Yeah, what's up? Or, you know, if there's anything I can help with, for example, like a family member of mine. Yeah. He's always just going through the motions and, you know, doing the same thing week in, week out, year in, year out. And, you know, yeah, I actively tried to sometimes push him into doing different things, but, I mean, if they're unresponsive to it, then the level of caring goes a bit goes a bit down. I think so. might be a bit of the same reaction that that puncher has, but like not with respect, but more like yeah, okay, so this guy doesn't care enough about you know, his life or improving his life then. Yeah, might invest my energy somewhere else.
I get I feel the same as well.
Panche Gashteovski 59:52
Yeah, I mean, this is really somebody close. I mean, I would definitely try to motivate and help and Encourage and because it could be a lot of things happening and there could be many reasons why people are acting the way they are acting maybe they have some maybe they're dealing with battling depression or the problem might be deeper than what means do and I think maybe if it's a really close person to maybe you also have the say the right to do it, but maybe you you can do something about it now you can depending on your relationship maybe you have also the obligation to help them.
Rolf Suurd 1:00:39
maybe. Yeah, man, so I want to close this off positively man. So do you guys have any you know, any positive vibes to bring to the people to encourage them from trying something new man? Do you guys have any recommendations? Maybe you've tried? Yes, I do. extremely uncomfortable. Like I don't know go skydiving or or you know what? What can it be Panche?
Panche Gashteovski 1:01:00
Very easy. Take a 20 seconds Cold Shower tomorrow morning.
Rolf Suurd 1:01:04
Panche Gashteovski 1:01:04
You will thank me later.
Rolf Suurd 1:01:10
My son. Well, my son actually does this man. Like when he's done showering. He's like he cranks the temperature all the way down to zero or not zero, but like, like to the blue, right? Yeah. And yeah, just stands there for like 30 seconds, cold and cold water because his grandfather used to do that all the time. So. So he's he's Bora, more of a tough guy than me. I think so. I'm gonna give it a shot. Actually.
Panche Gashteovski 1:01:33
Give it a shot. It's you. You will feel amazing after it. Like seriously.
Arno Van Rossum 1:01:41
You start with it?
Panche Gashteovski 1:01:43
I end with it.
Henrique Santana de Miranda 1:01:44
Okay, that's worse.
Panche Gashteovski 1:01:47
Yeah. No, give it a shot, man. Give it a shot.
Henrique Santana de Miranda 1:01:51
And I know, thanks. I prefer my comfort zone in that one. Okay, so I think my my tip is going to be because that's what I'm fighting right now. So I'm going to be a hypocrite, you know, do what I say but don't do what I do. And it's just like, you know, like, open yourself up, find a person to actually share your true inner fear or some feelings that you're feeling right now that you probably not sharing? I think you shouldn't do that. Tell the truth. Like no hidden agenda.
Rolf Suurd 1:02:30
Okay. They'll feel better afterwards. It's
Panche Gashteovski 1:02:33
Rolf Suurd 1:02:35
Okay. Arno what's your what's your tip holding down your children? Or?
Arno Van Rossum 1:02:43
Well, you have to put your hand.
No, I think my tip is going to be a bit more simple. It's if you're scared of doing something, just do it. It'll only benefit you.
Henrique Santana de Miranda 1:02:59
Only if you are a psychopath. Don't do that. If you're
Arno Van Rossum 1:03:03
within the law.
Rolf Suurd 1:03:05
Be scared of jumping off a bridge then. Probably shouldn't do it. Okay, yeah, mine is actually a bit similar. You know, don't like if you're sure that you're gonna do something, but you're always saying to yourself, like, oh, I'll do it next week. Or I'm gonna do it next month, or when this opportunity arises. And I'll do it. Just do it, man. Like if you're if you're certain that you're going to do it, then why postpone it? Just Just go ahead and do it today. That's my, that's my tip.
Arno Van Rossum 1:03:33
So you're gonna run around naked?
Rolf Suurd 1:03:36
Well, maybe not naked. But I am gonna probably do the cold shower tonight. That is probably where you got to start off with the easy things, man, low hanging fruit. And after that, I don't know man. I'll probably start a band or something. Hey, now jokey. Okay, so I guess that's it for today then. So were you guys comfortable or uncomfortable with this episode?
Arno Van Rossum 1:04:07
I'm okay with that between
Rolf Suurd 1:04:08
a little bit of both. Okay. Okay, cool. Well, it was enlightening. To me at least I don't think we've talked about this, like comfort zone thing a lot amongst each other at least. So I've learned, I've learned a few things about you guys at least. So that was it was good for me. So I hope the listener you as listener also learned something from us at least. And hopefully we inspired you to be a better version of yourself by doing anything at all to that's a bit out of your comfort zone to at least experience more what life has to offer because, you know, it's a beautiful world out there and yeah, everyone, everyone deserves to become better. And with that, I think we are to an end of this episode. So I want to thank my guests very much punchy I know and he thank you for being Here as always, thanks. And I want to thank the listener for for listening. And if you've any suggestions or comments, then you know where to find us. It's podcast at forescout sprint.nl. Or, let's see Twitter handle is at for scouts. And of course, on anchor where we have the message button, not many people have used it so far, but you know, so if you want to be the first, please do so, man. We're going to get out of your comfort zone. We're going to remember you forever 100% Alright, so Thanks and see you next time. Bye bye.